Mr. Guo kuizhang, chairman of fashion group, has made the 8th stop of the global youth entrepreneurship tour. Mr. Guo, who has just returned from Australia, has been invited by many media recently.

Recently, Tencent Daliao finance and economics "in-depth interview" column, which has interviewed Wang Shi, Dong Mingzhu, Wu Jinglian, song Hongbing and many other business and financial heavyweights, took the opportunity of Guo Dong's returning home lecture to specially invite Guo Dong as the 37th interview guest to have an in-depth dialogue.

The following is a reprint of Tencent's interview draft of "in-depth dialogue" column.

Guo kuizhang, who was engaged in art in his early years, was determined to become the best artist in China. He claimed to have done business by mistake. In 1988, he left the university to establish a fashion company. In 1998, he was rated as one of the top ten young entrepreneurs. In 2000, he established a fashion group and distributed real estate projects nationwide. When the company's business developed rapidly and became the leader of the industry, Lao Guo chose to leave the company and live a life of idleness and wildness. He takes reading, meeting friends and watching the earth as his daily pleasure. According to Lao Guo, the boss is not only the maker of the system, but also the destroyer of the system. Only when he is far away from the company, can the management team really become the operator of the enterprise, and the strength of a person can be even stronger But the power of a team.

To be an enterprise is like sailing on the sea. The front is full of rapids and dangerous shoals. The boss should stay away from the enterprise, which is a big ship, and look for tomorrow's route for the enterprise. Lao Guo also claims that life is short and small. He can't do the sun, but can only do a candle to warm and light people around him.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: Hello, Dong Guo, welcome to our "in-depth dialogue" column today. The tour of youth entrepreneurship has been to the eighth stop. What are your achievements in the previous stops or what are your specific expectations for this activity?

Guo kuizhang: This is a very accidental opportunity. I have talked with many young entrepreneurs before. They often talk about some confusion and even some doubts in the process of entrepreneurship. In my discussions with them, I also know that what they have experienced and their confusion about the future are all what I experienced in those years. So I would like to tell them about my failure in the process of starting a business. In this way, at the initiative of some youth chambers of Commerce, we held the first Youth Entrepreneurship Forum, which later had a good response and joined many fans of the youth entrepreneurship group. Now there are more than 4000 members of the youth entrepreneurship group in Australia. They are all young entrepreneurs.

There are three main purposes of my core: first, I hope that I can tell them the setbacks and failures of doing business for so many years, so that they will take less detours; second, I can build a high platform for them, because today's young entrepreneurs don't know how to deal with some high-level businessmen, if we form a group, It can guide entrepreneurs to carry out business cooperation with foreign businessmen and tell them the laws and social rules they should follow when cooperating with foreign businessmen; Third, I hope to find some talents from it, because our enterprise is also internationalizing and developing abroad. I feel that some young entrepreneurs are very familiar with foreign laws and regulations, and also hope to find some people that can be used by our company. More importantly, I also hope to find some very good entrepreneurial projects, and then as an investor, if I can do this, I feel very good.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: then your activity has returned to the Northern Hemisphere from the southern hemisphere. What are the specific gains? From young entrepreneurial talents to project introduction. Can you tell us more about it?

Guo kuizhang: In fact, in the past two years, the country has advocated youth entrepreneurship. I have gone through so many countries and found that most countries in the world, in countries dominated by economy and society, actually take small and medium-sized enterprises as the economic leader of the whole society. Like the United States and Japan, there are not many real large enterprises, which can be counted. Most of them are social and economic entities composed of small start-up companies with five or ten people. In fact, China will gradually move towards the economic situation of small-scale economic cooperation and partnership. Especially in the past two years, the rise of Internet and emerging industries may provide another development opportunity for our new businesses, so I feel this time is very good. We are more in Australia, because our company is also seeking overseas development in the past two years. In Australia, we know that Chinese investment is the first in the world these years. It's far ahead of the United States. Australia, Canada and the United States have made statistics. In these years, the largest investment country in these countries is China, which is a Chinese enterprise.

These enterprises have encountered a very big problem in overseas investment, which is the bottleneck of talents. When Chinese go abroad to start their own businesses, they will find that there are many places where they do not agree with the local conditions. So when I was doing this business platform, I provided a very high business talent platform for many Chinese entrepreneurs to invest abroad, and now the effect is very good. Another is that overseas young entrepreneurs have a strong desire for success. Especially in the past two years, they have seen the development of China and the rapid growth of domestic enterprises from nothing to $200 billion in assets. Therefore, they are also very encouraged. This is what they hope to become an overseas economy through the wind of the motherland Leading Chinese.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: we know that you went to the sea in 88 years, a few years earlier than our 92 school, which is now the dominant position in China. What opportunities and challenges do you think exist in the entrepreneurial environment in China compared with that in your year?

Guo kuizhang: In fact, there are opportunities and difficulties at any time. I remember that when I started my business in the tenth year, we were rated as "ten private enterprises in Liaoning Province". At that time, the top ten enterprises were Dongyu, he Guang, Renshen Baoye, Dutch village, and several others. We were one of them. I remember Jiang Wei, who was involved in protecting treasure liquid at that time, said, "all the people I see here today are new faces. I'm the only old guy left when the first private enterprise was rated as one of the" top ten enterprises ". I hope that in ten years, half of our enterprises will still be here." Less than 15 years later, our group of "top ten private enterprises" basically closed down, and now they have disappeared.

It can be seen that so many years of social and economic changes are also waves, constantly inundating some enterprises. We are an enterprise that has survived 26 years. And we have been taking the plan of step-by-step, step-by-step, do a good job, and then develop one, we do not want fast, but for good; not for big, but for refinement. That's why we've been able to survive. There is also that we have been adhering to the focus: focus on one area, focus on one industry. Our goals and standards are also very clear, that is, we must be the first! So I often tell our team, to be the first, second, full, third, fourth, leftovers, and fifth, sixth, no food. Only when you stick to the first and second, can you get high profits.

The other is that we don't rely on banks. This is one of the reasons why we have survived so many years of development. No matter whether the economy is good or not, we are all committed to doing our own business with our inherent capital, not relying on the bank or going public. This is what our company has been doing for so many years. The advantage of this is that we will not be affected by the economic cycle. The more downward the economy is, the more difficult it is. Instead, we feel that the better the opportunity is for us, which is exactly our best expansion time. This is where we are different from other enterprises.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: the key words you just mentioned are "slow", "focused", "unlisted" and "independent of banks". But in fact, this is the opposite of the so-called "Internet thinking" which is quite popular now, because China is in a "waiting wind" and "the wind comes, the pig can do it" In such a state of "flying to the sky", we pay attention to "the world's martial arts are fast and unbreakable". Now, the way of entrepreneurship under the Internet thinking is not to talk about the profit model, not to make money, but to wait for the profits to come in after listing. Do you think that under such an opportunity, you have any other thinking about young people's entrepreneurship and enterprise development?

Guo kuizhang: In our 26 years of development, I have found that there are new trends and new economic trends in the country and the whole society, but we have always believed that the trend is not equal to the right thing. Today's so-called attention and praise of all the people are not necessarily right from the perspective of history. So for a good enterprise, I always think that it should not only pursue the trend, but also calmly judge the current enthusiasm of everyone. I always think that a good enterprise is not profitable in the stock market, but you can create value by yourself. The stock is just a piece of paper. If we only make profits in the stock market, then this enterprise has no potential, can not continue to develop, and its contribution value to the society is very limited. This is an idea that we have been focusing on building a century old shop. I always don't want our company to be a flash in the pan enterprise, just like a fireworks, beautiful in an instant, I hope it can last and last. Just as Europeans can make a pair of leather shoes from several generations, make it a brand.

What do I often say is a successful enterprise? When I die, the enterprise is still there, that is a successful enterprise. If in a short period of time when I was alive, how many strong Chinese enterprises we had become, and in a flash, a very brilliant enterprise, but it was not successful if it was wiped out three years later. I remember when I was young, when our business was extremely difficult, I did read a lot of successful people's books, and I hope to inspire me to move forward with these successful people as an example. Later, our enterprise went to success. I read more about the books of those who failed. For example, in the earliest days of China, there was a book called "big failure", which wrote about more than 30 enterprises. It was the most brilliant enterprise in that year. How they failed. I put it on my pillow every day as a textbook. And I often tell myself, "big loser 2", don't have me. Last year, I read "big loser 2" written by Liu Xiaobo, and wrote about a dozen enterprises, all of which have been very brilliant in the past decade. Fortunately, I said that I am still alive without me here.

So the happiness of life is that when there are corpses around you, you can still live, in fact, you are happiness. This is called success. For today, you say that I am not a success, not necessarily, because my life is not finished. This company has life. Only when my life is over can we define whether our enterprise is a success. Of course, when I leave the world, this enterprise must decline, this is certain, because no enterprise is immortal, but the longer it decays, the higher its contribution to society.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: as you mentioned just now, we Chinese people like to see other people's success stories, and then are encouraged. In the course of your business and growth, what failures and unforgettable cases have you experienced? Can you share with us?

Guo kuizhang： t is impossible for a person to succeed if he has not experienced failure. In fact, any successful person has to experience more failures than others. In almost every growth process, I describe it as pushing a stone up the mountain, pushing us up hard every time, but the stone keeps pressing us, rolling us down, then we push up, and then we roll us down. So at that time, we felt that only through the "9981 difficulty" could we push the stone to the top of the mountain. This is a reason why we have come all the way and can stick to it. So an enterprise can grow, one is to constantly summarize and adjust through its own failure, and more importantly, we are willing to experience others' failure as our own failure, which is also a major work I have done outside for so many years.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: you just mentioned the orderly operation of enterprises and the failure of others, so you think it's also a failure. Why can you grow up, and for some enterprises it's a barrier that can never be stepped out? Do you think it's a physical difference or what?

Guo kuizhang： In fact, for many enterprises, bosses are busy with their own affairs, and may only see their own difficulties, but in our enterprise, the difference is that I left the enterprise, I left the enterprise when I was 36 years old, I have more time to wander around the world, in the company, my time is to study the failure of other enterprises. For example, how can we prevent enterprises from falling down in the economic cycle? What are the causes of the best and worst enterprises in the world. So in our company, the team is more in research success, and I spend more time in research failure. So that's why we are here today.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: what kind of mentality and practice do you think young entrepreneurs need to face the road they are going to face?

Guo kuizhang： This is what we define ourselves as. If you define yourself as a tree worm, you will grow very fast, and then quickly become a very vigorous plant, and the volume is very large. But the tree worm will never grow tall. As long as it grows to two meters, it can't grow any longer. But if you want to define yourself as a towering tree, you need to cultivate it with patience and time. We all know that a towering tree may grow very short in ten years, but after 20 or 30 years, it may become a towering tree. So that's why we define ourselves. We know that the better the tree species are, the longer their growth cycle is, the slower their growth rate is, and the more vulnerable they are, the trees that will be destroyed a little bit when they are blown by the wind are all those that grow fast. So we prefer to be the slow growing but solid enterprise.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: what kind of enterprises and projects have you met on the road of entrepreneurship support?

Guo kuizhang： Not the same. In China, we can't rush into the so-called trend industries, such as the Internet industry. Traditional industries also have opportunities. We know that there are many people in Europe who have made a pair of leather shoes and a leather bag for more than 100 years. In Switzerland, they can make a watch for a hundred years to keep up with the world's changes. No matter at any time, our basic needs cannot be changed. It is impossible for people all over the world or people all over China to only use the Internet and not use products. The Internet is just a marketing model, but it is not a product, so the real successful people are able to find things that others can't see in the complex things. Only when people don't pursue the trend, can they succeed. For example, in the first three years of China's real estate boom, I remember that one of the richest people in that year was a mechanic. The richest people in China were engineering equipment. Everyone made real estate. He made engineering equipment. He became the richest man. During the gold rush in the United States, when everyone went to the gold rush, the man who made the most money actually opened a restaurant in the gold rush place. Therefore, the successful must have the counter trend thinking, not to pursue the trend.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: do you think your successful experience can be copied for current entrepreneurs?

Guo kuizhang: In fact, it is the same as our birth, aging and death and our predecessors. Today, no matter we are ever-changing, in fact, we still live in the history and culture of our ancestors, and use the ideas of our ancestors to create our behavior today. What we change is our body, such as our appearance and our clothes, but what hasn't changed is our heart. The time we were engaged in at that time is in such a social background, which may be the same as today's The days are different. Although the tables are different, they are the same. For example, we start businesses with the same idea. For example, what kind of idea do we use to build an enterprise, how to focus, how to cultivate a team, and how to exercise the thinking of the boss are the same, but we may make different products.

Recently, someone often told me, "Guo Dong is not the same as you used to be. In those days, everyone didn't go to do business, and then you did, so there were more opportunities at that time." I said no, there was no chance at that time, because at that time, the state was suppressing the self-employed, and the individual economy people were the people with the least social status at that time, so there were only two kinds of people in business at that time, one was the people released through labor reform, the other was the rural migrant workers. I came out of the University, became a teacher, and then went to the sea to do business. In that era, there were very few.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: especially in the northeast, there are very few. At present, the private economy in Northeast China, which has been criticized by the major media, is actually problematic. What do you think is the problem that there are not enough large enterprises in China and Super enterprises that can radiate the whole world? Especially in a place like Liaoning?

Guo kuizhang: There are some limitations in the thinking of the South and the north. I'm from Northeast China. I started my business here and then went to the south. Because in the north, we prefer to have the concept of local area. This concept of local domain will, to a certain extent, limit our vision to some economic models of local domain. For example, here, what is particularly easy to appear is that you have done this, and I will do the same. You do sauna, I must do a bigger sauna next to you, squeeze you yellow. And then they fight to death. In fact, this is a primary stage of social economy. It is unhealthy for everyone to take competition and fighting as the leading role of the whole social economy.

In foreign countries, people are very taboo to the hard competition with the industry. As long as you make a restaurant like this in a street, I will not do it next to you. This is the most basic business ethics. I will definitely stay away from you, or I will make you complementary. If you make Chinese food, I may make western food. But I know I will not compete with you, because one of the disadvantages of direct competition is that both of them will die. That's why the enterprises in Northeast China don't last long. I remember that I was in Shenyang more than ten years ago, when the most popular enterprises are now disappearing. It's because its life cycle is too short, and it basically declines after only five or six years. This is the problem of our vision. I believe that with the maturity of the whole economy and the maturity of entrepreneurs, when they have more time to look around the world, they will find that the economy must complement each other. At that time I believed that they would mature.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: what do you think is the reason why your fashion industry can stand here for more than ten years and expand outward at such a fast speed?

Guo kuizhang: This is focus, focus on one area. So many years in Taiyuan street, from the beginning to now almost three or five years, there is a larger commercial enterprise opening around us, and then it will have a great impact on our passenger flow and business households. But it soon disappeared. Then there was a second opening, which disappeared for some time. So people from the company often tell me, "Guo Dong, we have met an opponent." I say that we have no opponent. Our biggest opponent is ourselves. If we continue to focus on ourselves, we will follow the example of the best commercial real estate enterprises in the world, learn from them, improve and perfect constantly. Even if you have thousands of competitors and competitors, it doesn't matter, don't care. Because we have no way to prevent others from competing with us, the only way is to constantly improve ourselves.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: you just mentioned that it is the best commercial real estate system in the world. We also know that many foreign department stores are old stores over a hundred years old. Can you tell us what kind of business model this is and what enlightenment it has on the orderly operation of Chinese enterprises?

Guo kuizhang: There are many century old stores all over the world, especially in Britain. Our company has been in this industry for 20 years now, and now we do have shopping malls in every city, which are the most popular in the local area. Shenyang shopping mall has the most people in Taiyuan street, and our rent is also the highest. The word-of-mouth of the market has not changed for so many years, and it is still a favorite place for consumers, especially young people. This phenomenon is not only in Shenyang, but also in other places. The reason is that we have seen some enterprises abroad, they will focus on one thing. A product, has been done for 40 years. In Australia, I saw an old man who had opened a lobster shop. After 40 years, they opened a shop in a basement. The old man always made that product and dish. I asked him, there are many people queuing outside your shop every day. Your shop is so small. Why not make a chain store. He said no, he wanted quality. If he did more, my quality would not go up. He does not ask for quantity, but for quality. This has touched me a lot. It can be seen that the best enterprises in the world are not the biggest, but the longest.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: what is the concept of these enterprises in our fashion department? Including the external expansion and the choice of urban layout?

Guo kuizhang: Because in recent years, we have been committed to developing in cities above the provincial capital and first tier cities, and we have to choose the position of commercial core, so we have to be limited in the speed of development. In fact, it's hard to choose such a position, but I'm glad to see that our opportunity has come, because in the past, when the economy was good, we didn't have the opportunity to get a good project. Too many people have conditions and backgrounds to get good projects, we can't get them. Now these projects with good location are in recession, even empty shell. This is the best time for us to pick up projects.

I understand that business doesn't matter whether it's underground or on the ground. As long as we do well, its concept is right. Business can be underground or on the ground. We are not limited to underground.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: we all know that you are an art student. Do you think your fashion products are more commercial or more artistic and more cultural for you?

Guo kuizhang: This is also a place where we do things different from others. I always regard doing business as doing art. The biggest advantage of doing art is to be able to carve and make every product. Make every product as a work of art, so as to achieve perfection. It's good to be able to make the best of our products. In fact, for so many years, the help to the enterprise is quite big, at least all of us are pursuing the ultimate perfection.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: you just said that making art and then making profits is quite an incredible thing for many business bodies, so how do you do it?

Guo kuizhang: I am an artist, I like to imagine, my imagination is very rich. The beginning of a thing will be very good, there will be a lot of imagination. I also like planning, such as making a project, but it's hard for me to achieve the best of many things like a craftsman. I know this is not my strong point, but it is exactly our team's strong point. Our current company's team, including the president and some of the following cadres, are all from financial background. They just make up for my shortcomings. I'll let them go, and they'll be able to take them. They will turn what I imagined into reality, which is the most important thing. If a company uses a thinking mode, it is very dangerous, but my management team and I are complementary and different thinking.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: you can leave the company at the age of 36 to travel around the world, which is a particularly enviable thing. What kind of idea does the company use to cultivate the follow-up talents? Your experience of human value is particularly worth learning.

Guo kuizhang: This is also what many bosses and I have been talking about. In foreign countries, people often ask me Lao Guo, what do you do? I say I am a little boy selling firewood. He said he never saw someone call you, or saw what you go to do or work every day. He said, how do you manage the team? I said I never manage the team, I just inspire the team. In the company, the boss and the whole company's team are actually two roles. Our team is to do today's work, is to have developed a plan to do detailed, complete. And the boss is thinking about tomorrow, about the future. As an enterprise, it's like sailing in the sea. The front is full of dangerous shoals and rapids. If I also sit on the ship, it's actually very dangerous. Only when I am far away from the ship and I am about 1200 meters away from the ship to find the way for the enterprise to tomorrow and see the risks of tomorrow, can the enterprise enjoy long-term stability. This is also the reason that our company's team gave me a lot of time to go out and see how these good enterprises around the world are doing.

In many companies, the boss and the general manager often sit in the same office, which makes the employees at a loss because they don't know who to listen to. So that the general manager becomes a puppet, not in our company. In our company, we only listen to his superiors. Even if I was there, they would not listen to me. They only respect their superiors, their systems and their customers, but he doesn't respect the boss. Sometimes when I go back to the company, almost no one at the grassroots level will say hello to me on their own initiative. Generally, I want to say hello to them. More and more people smiled at me, I felt it was a great encouragement, and finally smiled at me, because they thought the boss was not important. But in this way, many people will say that they don't value you. It doesn't matter that they don't value me. They just need to value customers. If all the people in an enterprise only pay attention to the boss, but not to their customers, this is the most terrible thing. At the time of new year's day, people will receive new year's messages. I don't have any. The staff will only send me a group of messages, not my own. After watching it for a long time, no one called me to pay a new year's Eve. It's like this in our company.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: now in many domestic companies, there has been such a problem that the boss is equivalent to the company's image symbol, spokesperson and all the core pillars. For example, enterprises like Alibaba. Do you think such a strong leadership style has hidden dangers or disadvantages?

Guo kuizhang: This is the boss's action and inaction. I often say that when the team has no action, the boss should have action; when the team has action, the boss should have no action. So our company because the team is very promising, they are very strong, I became a weak. In our company, the management team is always at the front, and I am at the back. So I often say that the least important person in our company is me. We are more willing to abide by the system, more willing to abide by the rules of the team, rather than to abide by the meaning of the boss. This is a very healthy enterprise.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: you just mentioned the concept of orderly operation and century old stores. What kind of path do you take for the selection and training of the company's successors?

Guo kuizhang: The company is a stage. As an entrepreneur, we are just a person who builds the stage, but we rely more on these actors, that is, the management team to perform. I define myself as four stages. In the first stage, I am the captain of the football team. I have to take the team and play in front of me. When the team grew up, I became a football coach, and they played for me to guide. In the third stage, I became a football referee again. Whoever plays well will be awarded the cup, and whoever doesn't play well will be given a yellow card. Now at this stage, I have become a football spectator. If they play well, I will come to see them and buy their tickets. If they don't play well, I won't buy tickets and I won't come. So the employees still want me to come, which shows that they are on the stage, not me. Many enterprises leave their bosses and the company collapses. But in our company, I don't believe it will. When I'm not in the company, it will go on its own. It has already formed a rotation.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: now like many Internet companies, such as Tencent, its internal popular is a competition mechanism, because Internet companies believe in the jungle law, you never know what dark material will come up to kill you. So now the competition is very popular in the emerging Internet companies. Do you like such a mechanism? Will you introduce it into your internal?

Guo kuizhang: In an enterprise, it is not the competition between one boss and another, but the competition between the team and the team. You have to form a driving type, not a traction type. To let the employees run, what the boss does is to hold the direction and grasp the rhythm, which is OK. At the beginning, we are for personal success, such as changing life and our personal destiny. When the enterprise is large, we are for the whole team to change their lives, their destiny and their living standards. This time should use their own intelligence to create a world for themselves. This is also the partnership that we advocate in the past two years. If you do well, you can become a shareholder of the company, the company will invest in you, and you can become an entrepreneur. There is no top cover for an excellent enterprise, not that managers are managers all their lives. Managers have become entrepreneurs now.

Tencent Daliao finance and Economics: from your dress, we can see that it's very unique. Your role has always been skillful between the world and the WTO. What kind of idea do you want to express?

But it is not shaken by the impact of e-commerce.

In today's China, when the wind comes, pigs can fly to the sky,